019 | Interview with Linda Guida
Welcome to CoxPod, a podcast for coxswains. I'm Anne. I'm Sally. I'm Breana, and we're three coxswains with over 50 years of experience in the seat. While there are many rowing resources out there, we decided to create a venue that is solely dedicated to coxing topics. We learn from our shared experiences and want to foster a community that encourages innovation and discussion.
SALLY: We're very pleased to have our current guest with us today, and I'm going to let Anne do the formal introduction. But why did we seek out this guest? As coxswains, our voice is our tool, and as you can hear in my current voice, sometimes the tools get a little rusty and misused. We have all been in these scenarios where the cox box breaks or the headset fries out, or it's the end of a long 3-day regatta and you've been coxing 14 races. So: how do we take care of our voice?
ANNE: And Sally, I was hoping that you'd also explain why your voice is the way that it is today, so that our listeners could truly appreciate this is for real.
SALLY: Yesterday, I did three head races. It was a fabulous day but I'm definitely paying for it, and anything you can do Linda to help me - I would truly appreciate.
ANNE: That's it. We're all going to listen very carefully. I know that I am - I was also coxing yesterday. My voice is not as fried as Sally's, I was coxing two head races. So we have lots of reasons to bring our guest on today. And I did want to introduce Linda. As we - as CoxPod - were talking about the importance of the voice as our tool, we asked each other: "Hey, who might we invite on?" And I immediately thought about Linda, who is someone that I met up here in Massachusetts about 15 years ago, when I started to get into the rowing scene. She is a rower. I have also had the pleasure of having her son be a coach for several of the crews that I've been in. And this year, actually, her husband was one of our coaches. And so she comes from a very heavy duty rowing family. I know she loves the sport, and she was gracious enough to say yes when I approached her about being the guest for this episode. So Linda, tell us more about yourself in your own words, if you wouldn't mind.
LINDA: Sure. Thank you so much for asking me. I was initially hesitant, but you know, Anne was able to convince me that I would be in good hands here. I'm a certified speech-language pathologist. I've been working in the public schools for about 37 years now, which I can't believe. And I started rowing in 2008. As Anne mentioned, my entire family and our friends are either coaches or rowers or coxswains or some combination thereof. And I thought, well, if you can't beat 'em, join them. So I learned to row and absolutely loved it. I joined the local club, and I've been rowing and being a speech pathologist ever since.
SALLY: Linda, for those who aren't familiar with this particular field, what does a speech pathologist do?
LINDA: If you're a practicing speech language pathologist, you must have at least a master's degree in that area, and you need to take a national exam and pass it and then you need to do practicum and clinical fellowship time practicing while being supervised. I work with children with speech sound errors, with language difficulties, with fluency difficulties (you might know it as stuttering). Voice issues are less a concern in the pediatric population, which is why I was sort of hesitant at first to take on this podcast. But if you know about voice, you know about voice, so I thought I can ... I can share some information.
ANNE: And Linda brings that special point of view of not only understanding about the voice, but about rowing. And that is not something that you encounter a lot. So we appreciate that very much.
LINDA: The focus of what we're going to talk about today is using your voice and how to preserve it and how to get the most from it and how to make sure you continue to have a voice. So I think I'll start off by talking a little bit about what your laryngeal system does. There are four functions basically. The first one is respiration and that, as we all know, is breathing ... very important for a coxswain to be able to breathe and have that breath support. One is phonation. And phonation is actually speaking and projecting that voice. The other two are less important for coxswains, but it's closing off your airway so that you can swallow and not choke. And the other one is to support yourself if you're lifting something heavy - your laryngeal system closes up so that you can give yourself more mechanical support.
BREANA: So other than coxing multiple head races in a single weekend, what other things - or at a broader level, perhaps Linda, could you share with us what kinds of things can cause voice issues?
LINDA: Right, there's a lot of things that can cause voice issues. You can have laryngitis from a cold, or allergies. You can have benign lesions like polyps or nodules. And then you could have, you know, more significant things like vocal fold paralysis and neurological disorders. But what we're going to focus really on today is vocal abuse and misuse. And that's coxing in a nutshell, actually. It's what you're doing for the 20 minutes approximately, of a head race that you are directing your teams, you're guiding them, you're giving them tips, and you're just constantly talking and trying to reach the person furthest from you so that they can hear you or you're yelling at the boat next to you. So this all can lead very easily to vocal abuse and misuse. So that's really what we're going to be talking about mostly today.
SALLY: Since we've outlined that coxing pretty much is vocal abuse, what are the symptoms? What are the warning signs that we are using and abusing and misusing our tool?
LINDA: The biggest sign or symptom is the vocal hoarseness and that's what you're experiencing today. It's sort of a rough, scratchy voice. Your vocal folds - otherwise known as vocal cords - they're a V-shaped mechanism and what you're doing when you're coxing is you're slamming those two vocal folds together, repetitively over and over and over. And that causes a buildup ... or almost a callus if you will ... on the vocal folds. And that causes your voice to sound hoarse, raspy, sometimes even breathy. That's the most common sign.
SALLY: Now - calluses on rowers' hands are a very good thing because it's protecting them. Are calluses helpful to us as a coxswain - the calluses on the vocal cords?
LINDA: No. So that's the perfect analogy. Calluses on rowers' hands are a good thing because you know, you're grabbing those oars and you want to build that up so that as you're rowing over the course of the season, your hands don't hurt anymore. The problem with coxswains is if you're building up calluses on your vocal folds, then they turn into nodules and that can be not a good thing long term. It is a short term problem and most often with rest and with care they will lessen and go away ... as would your calluses on your hands if you're a rower. When you're off season, the calluses go away and you have to sort of reform them in the spring. But those vocal nodules will stay there if you are continually ... if you're practicing every day and so you're using your voice every day or you have multiple head races or a three day weekend or Masters Nationals where you're doing it over however many days, that is. You can really do some damage to your voice. Not irreparable in most cases, but you can do some damage.
ANNE: Is it possible to get long term damage on your vocal cords.
LINDA: I think in extreme circumstances there is. It will cause you to be what's called aphonic or you won't have any voice therefore you won't have a job as a coxswain. So if you are constantly abusing your voice or constantly yelling or slamming those folds together over long periods of time, say in the fall by the time of the Head of the Charles rolls around, you won't have a voice and you won't be coxing that eight in a race. So it would behoove you to look at (you know) how's my voice sounding? Should I take it easy? Should I do something during this week where I'm limiting the amount of speaking I'm doing just to get those calluses down to make your voice a little bit ... to give it a rest, so to speak.
BREANA: So in order to prevent that really unfortunate potential situation of not being able to do our jobs due to loss or longer term damage to the tool of our voices as coxswains. What recommendations do you have, Linda, for how a coxswain can effectively project our voice?
LINDA: Well, it's really difficult. One of the first things is having a working cox box. I mean in a perfect world, every coxswain who sits in that seat should have a cox box that works and that every single person in that boat can hear them, and they can hear them at a level like I'm talking to you now. We all know that doesn't happen on a regular basis. So that's one of the first things. And with some younger crews, you know, they get thrown in a boat and a coxswain doesn't have a working Cox box. And this poor coxswain is now yelling and screaming so that bow seat can hear them. Well, that's just not good. And over time, that's even worse, because this person will indeed lose their voice if they're spending an entire season practicing like that. So one of the first things obviously, is to have a working cox box. Some of the things that you can do while you're sitting in the coxswain seat is learning to breathe properly. And that's easier said than done because in order to breathe properly, you need to sit up straight. And we know coxswain seats are not built like that - you're usually hunched over or you're in a bow loader. And you're, you know, all scrunched in there, and you're trying to project your voice. So that's not easy. If you're in a good position, it's actually sitting upright. So this can only be done (like) if you're standing next to the boat and you're loading the boats or whatever. Or maybe you're down at the start line, you can sort of get yourself seated higher up, you know, you're not in race position, but you're higher up and you can direct your crews as necessary. One of the big things is taking your shoulders and sort of dropping them down. Because then that's just taking the tension out. The more tension you have, the more hunched you're going to be. And the more strained your respiration and your phonation is going to be. So if you find yourself - while you're in that little position, but your shoulders are up around your ears - try to take a take a beat and say, "Oh, I gotta ... let me get my shoulders down and sort of relax a little bit because this is only going to help me project my voice".
ANNE: And Linda, I had a question based on your comments about the importance of having a functioning cox box at your disposal. For those times when we don't have one or it dies or whatever it is, how far do you think we can reasonably project ... let's say ... in an eight? I mean, I'm throwing that as the question. I'm going to start by answering it, which is not a really good technique, but I am anyway. I'm just saying, I can't - I cannot physically project probably past, let's say, six seat, if I'm lucky, because as the boat is moving ... I mean, they're all these obstructions ... their bodies preventing the sound moving forward ... there is air coming in my face. And I think there are coaches and crews out there that just have this idea that the coxswains can do that. I mean ... Breana? Sally? Do either one of you think that you can have two seat and bow seat actually hear you?
SALLY: I think my bow pair can hear me. I'm not sure. These are one of the times that I'm not going through a Shakespeare soliloquy or anything. And I am choosing my words exceptionally judiciously because I can usually only have the power in the air to belt out a syllable or two at most. So I don't think I can do technique things. But if I bellow out, you know, "Bow hit it", generally they can do it.
LINDA: You guys hit the nail on the head. If you're in a stern coxed boat, you've got the stroke seat sitting right in front of you. So the physics of it - it's impossible for you to make your sound waves go around everybody and reach the bow seat appropriately. So it's really imperative to have a working system. But what you mentioned, Sally, was that if you choose your words, judiciously, you know ... the less words, the better ... or the more succinct your messages, the more likely it is to be heard by somebody who's further away from you. Really paring down the words you use. So, you know, "Bow, tap it. All hold." ... those kinds of things. It's short. It's concise, it's to the point. And most people, if they can't really even hear you they can at least get the ... you know what that sounds like even muffled or even three people back. You can say, "Oh, that was a (you know) weigh enough or that was a tap it". I know as a rower when I was in the boat if I was further on back, you might not be able to hear the exact word but you sort of know what that word is because of the way it's said or the word that is preceding it or coming after it. But you know there are a lot of other things that are going on too when you're projecting your voice from the coxswain seat. So (you know) you have your stern seat sitting in front of you or you're in a bow loader. If it's during a race, you've got boats all around you. It's high tension. You've got coxswains sideways yelling at you to either get out of the way, or you know, you're yelling at them. So there's a lot going on in the moment. I mean, I can preach here (as we know) what should be done in the ideal situation. But then when you're put in a racing situation, all that goes out the window, because you know, there's so many other factors occurring that will cause you to, you know ... your shoulders go up, therefore, you have more tension, you're yelling, you're not projecting properly, then your box goes out mid race. There's a lot that goes on. And voice misuse is almost inevitable in that kind of a situation.
ANNE: Yeah, I don't even think that that covers half of it because the other half of it is ... at a regatta, for instance, there is so much use that you have to make of your voice when controlling - just getting into queue, lining up your boat, trying to make sure that you can maneuver your boat on land successfully. Breana? Sally? Can you relate to that also?
BREANA: Even just trailer loading for me is taxing before ... just managing getting every single boat from the team down ... and all of that - let alone before we even start the race. Yeah, it's ... I find it very taxing vocally.
LINDA: Right? You know, it's not just that 15 -20 minutes of racing. It's before - it's getting the boats in, it's getting down to the start. It's hanging out in them. You know, wherever you're hanging out, trying to maintain your place in line. So yeah, there's a lot going on. And you're spending a lot of time telling your crew what to do and just continually talking to them. Very little are you just sitting there doing nothing. So yeah, it is taxing?
ANNE: So what can we do? What can the coxswains do - if anything - to prevent or to deal with the issues that we are all acknowledging?
LINDA: You know, what's funny is when I go to races, especially head races, and I'm sitting by the side of the venue and I hear the boats go by ... I think I mentioned this to Anne at one point ... I can always tell the high school crews coming down because their coxswains are screaming - thinking that that's going to make their boat go faster, or that that's going to help them get by the next boat. Let's just say - all things being equal ... that you have a working cox box - what you want to try to maintain is try to keep your voice at a normal level as possible if you can. And as your boat's moving, you'll be able to know - if I give my bow seat this command and they're following, "Oh, they can hear me under these conditions". So really try to keep the "yelling / screaming" to a minimum if you can. That's really number one. As we said, you really can't control the positioning and your posture in the boat. So just trying to maintain that even vocal respiration / phonation level would be ideal. But then say, you know, like Sally, you come off and you've been yelling all day for so many races, what can you do afterwards? That's another story. If you maintain hydration, that's going to help your vocal folds. I mean, that helps your whole body anyways ... if you're well hydrated. And what it does is it keeps your vocal folds supple. You're not putting water over your vocal folds because you'd be choking, but you're just trying to maintain their suppleness. Something I just read recently was sort of like when you have a cold or you're all stuffy, if you put yourself over steam, and let (you know) breathe in the steam, that will coat your vocal folds and sort of make them a little less raspy. So that might be of help. A common misconception is that whispering is good for you. So I've come off these, you know, big races, and now I'm just going to whisper to try to save my voice. What people don't realize is whispering is just as bad. So you need to not speak at all. So if you're on vocal rest, or somebody says 'Oh, you need to take some vocal rest' - that means complete vocal rest. Not talking. Nothing. So you're writing down information ... you're signing ... you're gesturing ... that's really the only thing that's going to help your vocal folds recover.
ANNE: And I think that's going to be a surprise for a lot of us to hear that. That is something that we kind of resort to - to squeak out a few sounds. But as you're pointing out, that's not resting. Resting - in your eyes ... just to reinforce this - means silence.
LINDA: Exactly. And you people have heard about (like) the singer Adele. She had vocal cord surgery - as did some other singers and stuff - and they had to be on complete vocal rest and that's what they did. They did not speak. They did not whisper. They did nothing. And so that will help you immensely.
BREANA: And in terms of putting that into practice for coxswains listening: on a multi-day regatta we can't afford - if our voice is already strained - to be going to the team dinner at a loud restaurant ... talking that entire time. That's something I'm always thinking about ... is making sure that I reduce those extraneous, recreational uses of my voice when I need it for those long regattas.
LINDA: That's perfect. That's exactly what you should be doing. And the other thing is, is if you're at the team dinner at a restaurant, don't be drinking, try not to take medications, because those also might affect your voice quality. So really try to think of preserving your voice in that way. That this is your job over the next so many days, so what am I going to do to make sure that I have a voice at the end of it?
ANNE: What exactly are kinds of things that you can eat or drink that might be less helpful?
LINDA: Things like decongestants are not good because they're very drying. Alcohol is not good- I think - for the same reason. And caffeine is not good. either.
SALLY: I can forego the alcohol but I cannot make the coach/cox meeting without caffeine.
ANNE: Sally's out altogether on this one.
SALLY: That is that great information ... gotta go. I'm just gonna take some Halls, I'll be fine.
BREANA: Hi, listeners, it's Breana here - chiming in during the editing process with some potentially good news for Sally. I just came across a scientific article published by researchers at Trinity College Dublin, that looked at what we know about how caffeine affects the voice. There is almost no good research out there about this. And the research that we do have - which amounts to about five studies - found no negative effects of caffeine on the voice in healthy individuals. This article is hot off the presses, it's from 2021, the same year that we're putting out this episode. And it's open access, so anyone can read it. I'll link to it in our show notes @ coxpod.com/019 so that you can check it out for yourself. And now let's tune back into the interview and hear more from our wonderful guest. Linda.
ANNE: Do you think that lozenges - as Sally just referenced - are helpful? Or are they just sort of making you feel better generally?
LINDA: I think they generally make you feel better. But if you feel better, that's okay. I mean, you know, I do the same thing. If you have a sore throat, you want it something to suck on, and it sort of coats it as a while. Of course, you're not really coding your vocal folds, you're just coding your throat. But um, hey, go for it, I don't think it's going to hurt you.
ANNE: I think that when we're talking about preserving as much of our voice as we can, that in the regatta situation - where we have the on land work that we have to do, whether it be working on the trailer or navigating crowds - that is when I try to make as much use as I can ... see, my voice is going out already after yesterday ... of people assisting - people who know what they're doing. Or just say, "I really need your help with XYZ" that we are not essential for ... whether it's navigating a crowd and having somebody at the bow or the stern and then I could just take one end or the other. Do either of you - or I guess any of you because that'll include Linda with your experience at regattas - have any other suggestions?
LINDA: I think those are great strategies. Somebody else can help load the boat ... if somebody else can help you get from the trailer down to the loading dock. If somebody's got the front of that boat, and you're trying to make sure that you're not conking anybody in the head ... in the back, you know. The more help the better. I think those are great suggestions.
SALLY: So I found - especially navigating crowds where we don't all speak English or there are a lot of non-rowers - if I scream out, "Heads!" on the dock, a rower knows to duck down and grab their ankles. But (you know) an average person who isn't familiar with our vernacular won't know what to do. So rather than constantly bellowing, "Lookout! Do this.", I have found that the hulls are hollow. So if I tap on them with my fingers, people hear the sound and respond to that. So I just let my rowers know, "Hey, this is me banging on the hull". And you don't have to, you know, do a close fist bang, but it's a hollow tube. So just drumming my fingers on it. People hear that.
ANNE: It's a great idea. Thanks, Sally.
BREANA: One thing that I have seen as a recommendation across a couple of different articles out there that have sought to provide coxswains with some support is the idea of doing some sort of vocal warmup. And I know you came to us with a deep understanding and background in the research, Linda. Is there anything you found to support that kind of thing? You know, oftentimes we're rolling out of bed as coxswains and we're starting to shout right away at (you know) 5:30 in the morning.
SALLY: After caffeine. After caffeine, Breana.
BREANA: Right, then we added that. So is there anything that you found out there that is actually supported that offers suggestions for doing something other than that?
LINDA: I did look for some research into this. And the only thing I found was - it was referencing coxing - but it was talking about a singer who said, "I would recommend that you do vocal warm ups like I do" but there's no research behind it. But to me, it makes sense. You know, you get up in the morning, you know, if you pick up the phone and you call somebody, your voice sounds completely different than it would within like 10 minutes of talking. So it seems like maybe on your way to the boathouse if you, you know, did some talking to yourself or did a little bit of warm up. You know, I'm not sure what that would entail. But, you know, just talking a little bit to get your voice going. It's certainly not going to hurt. I'm not really sure if it's going to help and I could not find any research saying that it would help. So go for it ... with the caffeine.
BREANA: So if a coxswain has reached the point perhaps where they are perceiving that they have some substantial issues that are not going away with vocal rest ... you know, they've tried some of the remedies that we're talking about ... they want to keep going and thriving in this sport. What recommendations do you have, Linda, for pointing them towards perhaps other professionals in the speech world who might be able to give them some support?
LINDA: Sure, if a coxswain notices that their voice quality is getting worse, that they are more hoarse, that they have maybe even lost their voice, they should probably consult an ENT, which is an ear, nose, throat doctor - an otorhinolaryngologist - just to get their take on what they think might be going on ... if it's something other than just vocal abuse. What the doctor might do is do an endoscopy, take a look down there and say, "Oh, you've got nodules". Or you've got something else. "You've got polyps, we might need to remove these". I mean, there's a series of things that can get progressively more invasive as you move along. The ear, nose, and throat doctor might say something like, "I want you to go on vocal rest. Complete vocal rest for a period of X number of days or weeks, and then come back and see me". Or they might refer you to a speech language pathologist. And if that's the case, I would search out a speech pathologist whose specialty it is - is voice disorders. Voice disorders are not as common as all the other things that we do as speech pathologists, so somebody who works just with people who have voiced difficulties - they would have a broader base of knowledge and be able to support you better than somebody who's just, you know, who really specializes in ... as myself ... pediatric speech and language disorders. And you can do that by either getting a referral from the ear, nose and throat person - because that person will tend to know speech pathologists that do that - or you can consult the American Speech Language and Hearing Association's website, it's asha.org. And you can do the 'Find a speech therapist near you' search and that can lead you to somebody in your local area that might be able to help you. And then that person - that speech pathologist - will be able to give you tips ... have you maybe do some practice breathing, give you some exercises and things to do at home just to get you to realize what you're doing to your voice and how to better preserve your voice.
BREANA: Thank you. I think that will help assuage people that there are options. I know when I started coxing in college, I lost my voice monthly. At least at least every month, I would have a silent practice where I just couldn't talk anymore. And fortunately that has not manifested into long term issues over the rest of my life ... that my voice is very strained in coxing and in my profession as well and my hobbies ... as we are all here speaking. So I like the perspective that you offer there and I hope that helps any coxswain out there who's experiencing severe issues - have an understanding a little bit of what that process might look like and know what options that they have. So thank you for sharing that.
LINDA: And let me add that vocal nodules are not usually this horrible, medical death sentence so to speak. They are something that's highly, highly treatable. So you know, if you're a coxswain and you've lost your voice, don't be thinking, "Oh my gosh. This is the end of everything." because it's not. It's highly treatable. Your voice will come back and you can carry on coxing the next week or season or month or whatever ... whatever it is, depending on the severity of your condition. But again, it's usually not this (you know) life altering condition.
ANNE: If I could reflect on (sort of) a summary statement of what we've covered so far, I'm hearing: 1) use all the equipment that you possibly can and make sure it's available every moment that you possibly can. That we would not find it acceptable to send coxswains out without a cox box, and the wiring and the speakers that actually function, and especially on an ongoing basis, which I think the reality is: that sometimes happens. So that's something I think we ... I am hoping we can agree on, is not acceptable. The second piece that I heard, that (again) surprised me a bit is whispering is just as bad as speaking. And that the only real way to correct the symptoms of overuse is to have silence. And that what we came up with sort of as some practical tips included: having people assist you and do talking for you whenever that's possible. Hydration, right? Tapping on the boat ...
LINDA: I'm hoping that you have a lot of younger coxswains listening to this podcast, so this message is really for them ... so, the high school and the early college coxswains. If you have nonfunctioning equipment - and this goes to what Anne just said - don't just accept it. Do not accept it. Go to the coach and say: "I need something that works. Even though I'm in 4V," which has, you know, the lowest level of equipment depending on what program you're in, "I need a functioning cox box, or you're not going to have a coxswain for this boat in about three weeks. I will have no voice." So learn to speak up if you're in high school or college - really learn to speak up and say "I need some equipment." That's the lowest amount of ... (you know), "That's the bottom line that I need to be able to do my job properly." You know, high school kids, they just want to they want to get in a boat. They want to cox that 1V. So they don't want to make waves, but they need to make waves when it comes to this, because their vocal hygiene is at stake.
ANNE: And if you had one thought that you wanted to leave us with, or a couple of sort of closing thoughts, what might they be?
LINDA: My number one comment would be: Stop yelling. Just ... there's ... you don't need to yell, so stop yelling, especially you young ones. If you have functioning equipment, there's no need to be yelling. I know it's exciting, and it almost gives the spectators some excitement because they're like, "Oh my gosh, there's a lot going on out there, that coxswain's yelling," but there's really no need for you to be yelling. So you can take it down a beat. But yeah, just (you know), your voice is your tool. Your voice is your tool, and you have to look at the season that you need to be using it. So if you are in high school and you're looking at the fall seasons: I'm out for practice every day, I'm going to races on the weekends, I'm using my voice all the time, I need to maintain my voice over this period of time. Or if you are a coxswain who coxes all year round and you're traveling around the country or around the world: I'm using my voice all the time. I need to if I'm coxing for so many weeks here, and then I take a break. When I take a break, I need to really take a break. So look at your voice as one of - as your main tool, and preserve it because you need it.
ANNE: Great! Breana, do you want to talk about our Quick Pick for this episode?
BREANA: We wanted to just share a little tip that we hope people can take away from this episode, and one that we have on our minds that would help with this equipment issue would be to carry a spare cox box battery, if you use the type of cox boxes or other devices that have a removable battery. Especially older equipment, those batteries start to go and they start to die in the middle of practice. So having a spare with you, if your team has that available, can really save you in those moments and enable the practice or the race to continue.
ANNE: And Breana, I just employed that yesterday at the regatta that I was at. In the second race during the warm up, boom, it went dead, and I reached into my gear and pulled out a spare, put it in and I felt like, oh! I felt so great. So I hope other people have access to a spare battery. Just carry it - make sure it's charged, because they are usually sitting around - make sure it's charged. But when that happens it's a really tremendous feeling.
BREANA: Love to hear that being put into practice. Sally, would you like to take on our Shout-out? You had a very relevant book that you recommended to me that I have been reading, and our audience might like to hear about that as well.
SALLY: Yeah, the Shout-out ironically, right, for this topic. My shout-out is a book called "This is the Voice" by Jonathan Colapinto. I found it, as a liberal arts major, to be a very scholarly, impassioned, and possibly scientific book that focuses on the voice - on its cultural necessity, but also taps a little bit into the physics and medical reasons why things are happening. I thought it was a really interesting and diverse book that covered everything from like rock and roll to gender politics, to the study of linguistics. So I found it fascinating.
LINDA: That might be a book that I'd be interested in. Think I'll grab that one.
SALLY: Really recommend it.
BREANA: We are so thankful to Linda for graciously lending us and our audience some of her time. And she has also provided us with a list of resources for the audience to take a look at if you'd like to learn more. Those will be available in our show notes for this episode at coxpod.com. We would love for you to check those out if you're interested. Also there we will include Linda's contact information. So Linda, if you'd like to share now how the audience could get in touch with you if they would like to.
LINDA: Sure. My email address is firstname.lastname@example.org. I do have an Instagram account, although there's a lot of other things on there other than just rowing, but that's @rowergirl302.
ANNE: And I know where you live Linda, more or less. So if I have questions, I know that I'm going to be coming to you personally. But yeah, reach out. She's a great resource, terrific person, and more than that: extremely knowledgeable and generous with her time and talent. I really truly am appreciative of you doing the research, being willing to talk with us, and sharing with our audience. And it's something that is not addressed an awful lot. I'd like to shout my thanks, but I've learned now: just use my normal speaking voice and keep it for the long term. So as we close out, I'm going to say that in the meantime, we invite you to engage with us on social media and on Slack, where your question might get featured on a future episode. We'd also love for you to consider supporting us on Patreon if that's of interest to you. We're excited to bring you more content soon. And until next time, I'm Anne.
SALLY: I'm Sally.
BREANA: And I'm Breana, signing off for now.